Chronic Kidney Disease food help

[TiffTiff]

Hiya, I'm hoping someone may be able to offer me some advice on a Whiskers product I found recently which I'm hoping might be ok for our cat Tiff. She is about 15/16 years old and recently diagnosed with Chronic Kidney Disease and we were told to put her on a renal diet. We had have tried lot of different brands and flavours but she just turns her nose up. I found a great website (TANYA'S COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO FELINE CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE) which said there were phosphorus binders to try but my vet wasn't overly keen as you don't know how much phosphorus is in the food in the first place. Yesterday while out shopping I found Whiskers 11+ which said its phosphorus is 0.22%. It sounds too good to be true. Does anyone have any experience with it? We are beginning to worry and would rather she eat something than not at all, but our vet is being less than helpful.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Mollycat]

So glad you've discovered Helen's really excellent website, the best CKD cat advice anywhere on or off the internet in my humble opinion, and it really is as she says pretty comprehensive.

You're not alone, renal wet food is notoriously greeted with all the enthusiasm of a dip in the fish pond by most cats. The dry versions are usually significantly better received, my own go-to being Hills as all my three who have tried it have loved it (but the Hills wet may as well have gone straight in the bin).

I haven't tried anyone on Whiskas, but that's because I don't like any form of Whiskas for my cats. But myself and others here have fed and still feed a mix of normal food and renal, most commonly a renal dry and standard supermarket wet, preferably but not necessarily senior, and seen our cats' blood results initially at least make a noticeable improvement. As Helen says, they best food for a CKD cat is the one they will eat.

Now - how important renal food is depends on several factors - the age and general quality of life of the cat; the stage and progression of the renal disease; and the way you feel about the whole thing, your approach to life, death and science. Unless it's already pretty advanced it is a progressive disease, it can be slow progressing. Tanya's success stories are mostly American and they are far more fond of administering subcutaneous fluids than we are in the UK and I don't think our survival times are any different. There are reasons why too much fluid isn't always a good thing anyway but that's for another post.

Personally, I have a 15 year old cat with high urea (BUN) but very normal creatinine who has been on a renal diet for 11 months and appears to be doing very well, but her joints are quite stiff and I am considering ditching the high calorie renal in favour of weight loss to prioritise her joints and therefore her comfort. If that means we have one year not three, I'm fine with that, because her quality of life wins above my wish to have her with me until I'm 110 and can't remember her name.

[fjm]

Finding a food CKD cats will eat and continue to eat is a hot topic here! I know I am not the only one with boxes and boxes of food Tilly loved when I ordered them but now won't touch!

When looking at phosphorus levels it is important to consider the amount per 100kcal, rather than just the percentage. The Whiskas 11+ I have found quotes .18% phosphorus (180mg), but is only 77kcal per 100g. (180/77)*100 = 234mg per 100kcal, which is considerably higher than the 150mg per 100kcal recommended for early stage CKD, and 45-95mg per 100kcal recommended for late stage. The food is very high in water and rather low in nutrients, so is likely to fill Tiff up before she has eaten enough for her needs.

It is difficult, I know. If you pm me your address I can send you a few different foods for Tiff to try - I have a cupboard full of ones Tilly has refused. At the moment she is really enjoying Royal Canin, both wet and dry. It is rather expensive, but so is buying a cheaper food and throwing most of it away. I find VetUk cheapest, and they do a sampler pack of the four flavours.

[TiffTiff]

Thank you all so much for replying.

So far we've tried the Pro plan Royal Canin and Hills. She hasn't much in the way of teeth so dry is not an option. She really enjoys Gourmet 7+ and Felix. The Whiskers is the only one I've seen so far with information on phosphorus levels.

We've not long had her. She belonged to my neighbours mum who sadly passed away before Christmas. She had never been to a vet before so just getting her there was traumatic for her and she became quite feisty when they tried to check her over. We had to get her sedated just for them to feel her belly. Now we have a diagnosis we are just wanting to make her as happy and as comfortable as possible. The vet wants her back in for regular bloods, urine and blood pressure, but we think this is too much for her to cope and be happy with so was hoping just to get her on a better diet and take her in every 6 months or so.

I need to speak to the vet again as I didn't really take a lot of what he was saying in. It just felt like a lot of numbers and I was just relieved it wasn't cancer. I wrote down stage 1 borderline 2 and 1.4 and 1.66???

We have to take her back in soon for another booster so will speak to them again.

Also thank you so much for your very kind offer fjm.

[Mollycat]

Aw what a sweetheart. My Molly is very difficult to get to the vets and treat. It sounds like this lovely girl you have taken on has bene through enough and you just want her to have a nice peaceful comfortable life, whatever is left. Stage 1 to 2 is early and the numbers at that level could be made worse by stress.

Is there maybe a different vet you could see, with a more client-centred approach? We have several vets in our practice and I'm happy with most of them for the dog, but only one ever sees my cat. A vet that is in tune with you and your pet is so important.

Also, if you want to take a less hands-on more laid-back approach, Tanya's Pages and the members here can help you to keep assessing any signs that she is becoming uncomfortable.

[booktigger]

I'd be wary of Whiskas unless she is overweight, I used the old 7+ for my last cat and we panicked when he lost a lot of weight, turned out it was Whiskas. I wouldn't rule out dry food just because she has hardly any teeth, I've had cats with no teeth managing to eat dry food with no problems. It might be that what she likes with a phosphorus binder is a better option for you. Good luck

[Kay]

ask the vet staff to email you a copy of her test results, as you'll find a lot more accurate advice on the internet with her actual figures to hand

[TiffTiff]

Thank you all again for the brilliant advice.
My other cats are on Royal Canin biscuits so will see if she eat that. I'm slightly concerned about the Whiskers as when she's had it she seems to toilet less. It could be a coincidence but we have gone back to the Gourmet.
I'm thinking the phosphorus binders might be worth a go does anyone have any experience/recommendations? Also is there any resources that list the phosphorus and protein in non-theraputic UK cat food?

[fjm]

I don't know of a list of phosphorus levels in UK foods, but the information is often available on the manufacturers' websites and sometimes on the big online retail sites like Zooplus and PetsAtHome. It can vary in how it is presented - % per 100g as served, % of dry matter, mg per 100kcal - so you really need to dig quite deeply to get reasonably comparable figures. Real meat, provided it is fairly fatty, is quite low in phosphorus per 100kcal - 20% minced beef is around 65mg, and minced chicken 75mg (skinless chicken breast is much higher, at 164mg because of the low fat content). 200g of minced chicken, 10g chicken liver and a pinch of ground eggshell, which is not completely balanced but OK for a few times a week, gives around 480 kcal, 15% protein and 80mg phosphorus per 100kcal.

[Mollycat]

I was just looking at Tanya's Pages and happened to notice the phrase "ONLY a therapeutic diet has sufficiently restricted phosphate levels" - I had to paraphrase as I was really reading about protein and had passed it before remembering this question about Whiskas. She also says that unlike protein which divides experts, phosphorous is a definite established fact (as far as science ever can be).

Phosphorous should be tested in your cat's regular blood and urine tests for a ckd cat. As the level rises, this indicates the kidneys are less able to eliminate the excess. I'm not really sure it matters all that much what the level is in the food, if it's a normal level and the cat can't get rid of the excess then it needs to be restricted one way or the other, if ingesting less isn't an option the cat will accept then a binder that blocks some of it from being absorbed from the food is your next best thing. But if you know the blood level is higher than the acceptable range then you can do something about it, don't just guess or assume it needs doing. Vet should offer you a full range of tests to get a true picture of what's going on.