Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

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Kay
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Kay »

I think the decreased appetite and lethargy are just a sign that her thryroid levels are much reduced - they can be below normal for a bit after the treatment and then creep up again to normal - this is what happened to my Trigger

the first blood test will show how things are - when is that due for Pallina and Mouse?
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Hi Kay I THINK they said a month after the injection for Mouse, which would be 1 Sept, but I must recheck that as I was like a zombie that day I went to collect her - definitely not the sharpest nail in the box lol.

Hi Antonio, hope Pallina's going on ok - Mouse is quiet too and I'm just letting her be; she's holed up in her room and doesn't come out despite the open door. But her appetite is good in the evenings. So it does seem to be a normal thing for cats recovering from the treatment? - I'll add that to my list of questions to ask when I ring the centre.

Purrs and hugs to you and Pallina from Mouse and me x
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Hi all,
Pallina's appetite is going high and low. Today it seems fine, yesterday was rather fine, the day before was rather poor.
Her behaviour has changed a lot since the shower, not the same cat anymore :(

I don't think that the radio-active treatment left some sign on their body. I mean, it wasn't anything heavy or invasive, it was an injection like many others in the past. Possibly the detention at the facility might have left some scar in their minds, but I am sure that cats can forget this kind of nightmares easily.

@Kay,
about the appetite, Pallina was never voracious during her illness. Her hyper-T was in the apathetic form, that is she was hyper-T but without the classic symptomns of other cats with the same disease. It's a form of disease that occurs in 9% of cases.
I think that the lack of appetite is more related to the heat. We're still well in the 30's despite being at the end of August. The temperature is 8-10 degrees higher than the average for the period, furthermore this summer is endless, this is the 15th week in a row with temperatures over 30°C, it never happened before, over here the average summer last 5-6 weeks...

There's another variable in the game
A mother cat brought her four kittens to my garden 2 months ago. I have been taking care of them since and in the last few days I have been a little more anxious about them because they're at the age when they would like to explore the rest of the world.
Two of them have been re-homed during the last week.
One of the other two is extremely sweet and friendly and the daughter of a neighbour of mine has been very interested in it, to the point that in a couple of occasions she came to my garden and "kidnapped" the kitten to bring her home. I had to go to their home to have the kitten back and I've been insulted because I was making their daughter cry!
To cut the long story short, I had to keep the kitten inside my home and probably Pallina is a bit offended by this.

I'm trying t keep the two worlds separate, but clearly something has changed in the house.
I hope to rehome the other two cats soon so that our lives can go back to normal!

Lots of kisses to Mouse :D
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Aww, Mousey says thanks and sends lots of kisses back :D

Hey could that family be a potential home for the kitten???

I reckon the heat could be a big factor - all mine are zonked out in a (rare) heatwave here - even my royal python who has to have a temp gradient of 26-33c.

Sending all good wishes to Pallina and wild family as well x
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Lilith wrote: Hey could that family be a potential home for the kitten???
I'd never give a cat to them!
They did have a cat, they would leave her out day and night, summer or winter, rain or sun. Until on a day they found her dead!
And they have the face to come to me and say that they treated her like a princess, that I'm selfish and boorish, and that because the mother cat is a feral then the kittens are feral too, and they belong to whoever wants them.
I already had those kitten visited by the vets several times, they have been dewormed and vaccinated, cured for a rhinitis and so on, I have spent several hundreds of euro for them. Yes, they are feral, but I think I have more rights on them than the neighbours.
So, to close the discussion, I had the four feral kittens microchipped and now they are MINE!
The sweetest of the two kittens has to stay indoors to avoid further arguments with them.
I reckon the heat could be a big factor - all mine are zonked out in a (rare) heatwave here - even my royal python who has to have a temp gradient of 26-33c.
This morning Pallina wasn't doing fine, she was clearly sick and vomited some jiuces. She didn't eat her usual morning food... :(
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Meant to reply sooner than this but more computer problems ... Typing in haste to make sure I get through :)

Hope Pallina's feeling better today, all paws, fingers and tails crossed for her!

Ah, see what you mean about not letting that child keep the kitten - horrible people! Neighbours like that are a pest - nothing is ever their fault is it? Good on you for caring for those ferals, and good wheeze to get them microchipped :)

Again all the best and lots of love and fusses to Pallina x
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Hi all,
Pallina isn't fine today either.
Yesterday she just ate 3/4 of a can instead of her usual 2 cans.
This morning I found a vomit of clear juice (water?) on the floor. She was lively and hungry and I was rather happy, but then she barely ate something and at noon only 2/3 of wet food were missing from the bowl. At that time the bowl is usually empty.
She was a bit down and sad. I think she has some stomach issues. I can presume a gastritis, so I am giving her shots of Ranitidine to ease her problem a little. I hope it isn't a bout of pancreatitis...

Because I am keeping the kitten in the next room, in order to cover and hide any noise the kitten could make and that could annoy Pallina, I am leaving the radio on in the morning. When I go back home I find Pallina with her head resting against one of the speakers.
I think she loves good music, the station the radio is tuned in broadcasts only music from the '80s and '90s :D

Yes, those neighbours are a pain in the neck!
I am expecting that one of these days they will ask me where the small tiny grey kitten has gone. This morning I couldn't find the other kitten who lives in the garden, she isn't so friendly as the the one who lives indoors, but I was worried that they had kidnapped her in retaliation. Luckily she was just out for a walk and at noon she was outside waiting for some food.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Oh I'm glad the kitten came back, and that Pallina's a bit livelier, sorry to hear she's still having sick and listless episodes though :(

Aww, clearly a musical cat! All the very best :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

This morning Pallina was a little more alert, she ate something more than she did yesterday. Last night too she asked for food, but I only gave her a spoonful so not to disturb her sensible stomach.
Next check on Sept 11, with a complete blood test and two ultrasound scans (chest and abdomen) to check on those free fluids that the vets at the Ghent facility saw in their scans.
I'm still giving her two shots of Ranitidine a day. My vet told me that it can be done for life is necessary.

EDIT: two typos!
Last edited by Antonio on Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

I'm surprised you are giving her shots of ranatidine, my neighbour gets hers in tablet form, sure it's only once a day. Fingers crossed for her
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

booktigger wrote:I'm surprised you are giving her shots of ranatidine, my neighbour gets hers in tablet form, sure it's only once a day. Fingers crossed for her
May I ask why you're surprised?
My vet told me that this way it's easier to administer and there's no chance she could throw it up later.
The first three of rour shots can be of up to 0.2 ml per kg, so now I'm giving her 0.6 ml twice a day. Then I will give 0.1 ml per kg, that is 0.3 ml twice a day. It takes about 30-40 minutes to kick in, ideally I should give her the injection 1 h prior to the meal, but you know, cats have always a dish full ;)

I did that before and it worked fine.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Hope she continues to improve, bless her :)

Wow, that's daunting, to have to give two injections a day for the rest of her life if needs be.:o Sh'e a good girl to let you - as you know Mousey even hid away from the pills.

All the very best and purrs from Mousey :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

I've only ever known it come in tablet form
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

booktigger wrote:I've only ever known it come in tablet form
I think I have to clarify that I am using the Ranitidine for humans.
As far as I know the veterinary version is known as Zantadine and comes in tablets.
In an old post of mine I had written that over here in Italy vets suggest pet owners to use the human version of drugs for their pets whenever it is possible.
Ranitidine doesn't require a prescription, it's an otc drug so it's easier :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

The vet version here is called Renatadine, its only 10mg whereas the human OTC is 75mg.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

The vets at the Ghent facility told me to collect Pallina's waste from the first two weeks in a different bin.
Well, I thought that three is better than two, so I extended the special period to three weeks which ended yesterday.

As from today I am collecting and disposing of her used litter normally.

What I can see, or I think to see, is that Pallina's coat is softer and better combed and that she looks "rounder". I should weigh her to see if she's gained some grams, but I'd rather wait for the day of the first check-up visit on Sept 11 so not to stress her too much.
There's no difference in the eating voracity. She has/had an apathetic form of hyper-T so there were no typical symptoms at all.

The weather has changed over here. Still dry, bright and clear as in the last 16 weeks, but with a sudden drop in the temperatures that now are 8-10 degrees lower. This doesn't seem to have changed anything in Pallina's attitude. She sleeps a lot and asks to be taken in the backyard :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Hi, I've been wondering about that - how long does the waste remain radioactive? There seem to be different regulations. As you know I flush the litter, but after Mouse exploded all over her room there are puppy pads covered in sick and mess, and all her disposable bowls, bagged up in the cellar. Perhaps I'll check with the clinic about that. I can't seem to see anything in their paperwork/brochure but that's possibly just me ...

I bet she feels better with the cooler weather and it sounds like she's taking an interest in life again :)

Lots of purrs from Mousey and me :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Lilith wrote:Hi, I've been wondering about that - how long does the waste remain radioactive? There seem to be different regulations.
They told me that radiations decay at a safe level after three months. So litter and blankets or anything that has come in contact with Pallina's fluids should be left alone for three months.
The more I read on the web about others' experiences with radio-cats, the more differences in guidelines I notice.
So, is there anything clear and sure in this field? Or are they just giving out advice at random? :?:
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

I rang the centre just now and their guidance is - as soon as the cat is clear (back to normal background levels) so is any waste. :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

Funnily enough I had to speak to my vet today as Lucy has been sick after her last two calcium meds, she has been prescribed liquid Ranatidine!
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

booktigger wrote:Funnily enough I had to speak to my vet today as Lucy has been sick after her last two calcium meds, she has been prescribed liquid Ranatidine!
So you'll have to give Lucy daily shots?
Is that Ranitidine for human use?
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

No, its given orally, preferably twice a day. Would imagine its human, vet said it was mint flavoured. Although the tablets my neighbour was given are 10mg and I saw human ones are 75mg.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Hi Antonio, how's she doing? :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Lilith wrote:Hi Antonio, how's she doing? :)
Hi Lilith,
Pallina has been fine all week except yesterday, Saturday, when she ate only one can of food rather than the usual two. Today she was fine again and everything was as usual.
Tomorrow morning she'll have her first control visit with blood test, thyroid test, two ultrasounds. The two scans will produce instant reports, the blood test will be ready before night, the thyroid test could be a little slower.
Next test in November, the last one in February.

Hopefully everything will be fine.
I'll weigh Pallina before going to the vets' , it seems she a bit rounder than one month ago, but it could be just my eyes :D
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Antonio wrote: Tomorrow morning she'll have her first control visit with blood test, thyroid test, two ultrasounds. The two scans will produce instant reports, the blood test will be ready before night, the thyroid test could be a little slower.
I have no words! :twisted:
The doctor who had to do the ultrasound scans wasn't there today. They called him home and he said he had asked the other doctors to let me know that the appointment of today was cancelled. But they didn't call me!
So I have to go back tomorrow, same time, with Pallina fasting again!!! :twisted:
The only thing they did today was the blood test, and hopefully they did the right thing... but I have a bad feeling about it...
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Oh no ... what a feeble lot!

So you've got another journey to face. Will she have to starve again, or was that just for the blood test?

All the very very best and hope they sort everything properly this time and that the results are good, Mousey sends loving purrs :)
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

Yes, Lilith, a feeble lot!

The blood works came back very good. The renal levels where out of range at the end of July, a week prior to going to Belgium, now they are back to normal. This is strange. The vets in Belgium told me that I should have seen a worsening in that department and that I had to be prepared to an increase in Creatinine levels. I had read other websites where this info was confirmed.
Apparently it is fine at the moment.
All levels are fine except the liver that is showing signs of a slight failure, but we are used to that, Pallina is taking a supplements for this and the situation has improved.

This morning I had to be there again for the ultrasound scans, chest and abdomen. Another 20 miles trip and three more hours off job!
The abdomen came out clear, except for slight signs in her kidneys. The GI tract is fine, so I could think that the new diet is doing a great job in keeping her inflammation under control.
The chest scan showed some free fluids around the heart and lungs. The doctor aspired some fluid from Pallina chest and it was about 55 ml of pinkish/orange fluid, serum he said.
The vets in Belgium noticed this fluids during a scan and the worst scenario was a FIP diagnosis, but the colour of the fluid this morning was clearly NOT FIP.
After all, if it was FIP Pallina would have been now worse than a month ago.
They will analyze that serum and I should have the report tonight.
I'm still waiting for the thyroid report.

I weighed Pallina yesterday, she was 160 g (5.64 oz) more than when she was released from the clinic.
I weighed her again upon returning from the scans today and she's only 50 g (1.76 oz) more than a month ago. She pee'd in her carrier during the trip to the vets and they took lots of chest fluid from her. More she ate only one can yesterday and had to fast again for this morning scan, so I think this is her real weight, 2.870 kg (6 lbs 5.3 oz). She was nearly twice as much when she was healthy and fine in 2015/2016.

The vet who did the scan this morning wasn't enabled to a full scan of Pallina's heart, with all measurements on heartbeat rate and all... I have to reschedule the visit with another doctor...
When I called the secretary a week ago I specifically asked to have the tests done by a certain doctor and on a certain date (today), but she insisted that yesterday was fine... I had a bad feeling from the start!

Yes, a feeble lot! :x
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by booktigger »

Sorry to hear you have been messed about with her scans. I do hope the fluid in her chest is nothing to worry about - the only colour I've heard connected to heart issues is milky white, FIP causes straw coloured fluid but normally in the abdomen. Interesting that her kidneys have improved.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Antonio »

booktigger wrote:Sorry to hear you have been messed about with her scans. I do hope the fluid in her chest is nothing to worry about - the only colour I've heard connected to heart issues is milky white, FIP causes straw coloured fluid but normally in the abdomen. Interesting that her kidneys have improved.
The report for that fluid came back with many lymphocytes diffused in it.
The advice they gave me was to do nothing, just repeat the test at the end of the month with a new chest scan.
The only suspect they could have for this is a lymphoma, but neither ultrasound scan (in Belgium or here) nor the X-rays have shown anything of the kind and there are no other symptoms, so they do not understand at the moment... In two weeks time we'll have more data.

No thyroid report yet.
The clinic lab told me that their equipment is currently not suitable for that measurement, so they sent the sample to an external lab that should sent the report back within next Monday.
Changing lab isn't the best practice, because we lose the reference with the previous tests, but if the T4 and fT4 levels are much lower (or higher) than the past reports then we'll have a hint of what's going on.
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Re: Pallina, hyperthyroid cat. Seeking advice

Post by Lilith »

Hey Antonio, good luck. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that white cell levels do fluctuate in both cats and humans which is probably why they plan to repeat the test - hope she stabilises. Mousey sends loving purrs x
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