Ivy and I had a rather expensive evening at the out of hours vets as I came home to her straining in her litter box. Luckily her bloods are all good, Kidneys are fine and there were no crystals or bacteria in her urine. So, it seems she has some inflammation and she had an injection at the vets that I then have to follow up with metacam for the next 3 days.
I know to keep an eye on her digestive system, but is there anything else I should be aware of?
I am also trying to get to the bottom of why she would be feeling stressed. Her routine hasnt changed at all and the only thing that has changed is the little bit of dry food I give her before bed. Obviously if there is something else stressing her out I want to rectify that, but I am feeling a bit stumped.
Metacam - First time user
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fjm
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Re: Metacam - First time user
I have found the main thing with metacam is to be scrupulous about not exceeding the recommended dose and - for those with both dogs and cats in the house - to be very aware that the preparation for dogs is 3 times as strong as the cat one and that they are NOT interchangeable. Pippin-cat was on a daily dose for arthritis for around 10 years - used correctly it is very safe and effective, but I kept his bottle on a shelf on one side of the kitchen and the dog's in a drawer on the other and checked which one I was using every time!
Re: Metacam - First time user
Luckily Ivy is the only pet in the house, but yes, the vet showed me how to draw up the correct amount for her. I am so pleased I can put it in her food, so giving it directly would be a nightmare with her.
Poor little thing is still straining at her litterbox, but I expect it will take a few days to clear.
Poor little thing is still straining at her litterbox, but I expect it will take a few days to clear.
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Raissa maxine
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
At my vets they always mark the syringe before handing over the drugs, whether it's your first bottle or your 50th. They have now even got the hang of me giving Molly a half dose for her actual weight (3kg) and mark where that is rather than the full-dose-for-her-ideal-weight (5kg). If they don't do that, just do it yourself with a permanent marker.
How is Ivy doing now?
How is Ivy doing now?
Re: Metacam - First time user
We are doing her actually weight (4.4kg) and not her apparent ideal which is 4kg. Luckily she didn’t clock that I had mixed it with her felix soup last night and she has it all which was good.
In terms of how she is doing, she is still going a lot and doing little 2p pees each time. I think I can still see a faint red tinge to it, but the vet said to expect that for a few days. She is able to sleep, is eating well and managed a little short play yesterday. I also ordered some cystease (?) from Amazon that is arriving tonight.
As it’s a bank holiday I might pop into her regular vet this afternoon just to ask them what to do over the weekend if there is no improvement and she finishes the metacam.
In terms of how she is doing, she is still going a lot and doing little 2p pees each time. I think I can still see a faint red tinge to it, but the vet said to expect that for a few days. She is able to sleep, is eating well and managed a little short play yesterday. I also ordered some cystease (?) from Amazon that is arriving tonight.
As it’s a bank holiday I might pop into her regular vet this afternoon just to ask them what to do over the weekend if there is no improvement and she finishes the metacam.
Re: Metacam - First time user
On my home I popped into the vet and I have an appointment to take her in tomorrow morning at 9.30. I am so glad as when I got home she rolled over to greet me and I noticed that all the fur under her chin had been scratched away. I noticed a couple of clumps of fur the other day, but she is very fluffy for a short hair, so didnt think anything of it, and didnt notice the patch as its hidden when her chin is lowered.
So, now I am thinking its an allergy that is causing her stress which has resulted in her toilet issues. I don't think it is fleas as she is mainly indoor and just has a little catio to chill in. I also have no bites and she sleeps on my bed. So - I think the M&S dry food might be the culprit. I just had a look and it has maize and barley which google tells me might cause a reaction.
The cystease has arrived so I have popped some of that in with her dinner and I have given her a beaphar calming treat as she loves them and they do help her to chill out.
So, now I am thinking its an allergy that is causing her stress which has resulted in her toilet issues. I don't think it is fleas as she is mainly indoor and just has a little catio to chill in. I also have no bites and she sleeps on my bed. So - I think the M&S dry food might be the culprit. I just had a look and it has maize and barley which google tells me might cause a reaction.
The cystease has arrived so I have popped some of that in with her dinner and I have given her a beaphar calming treat as she loves them and they do help her to chill out.
Re: Metacam - First time user
Me again - I am potentially an idiot as I just realised that the vet may have shaved her neck to take blood on Wednesday. 
Re: Metacam - First time user
We popped to the vets this morning and she had shot. We also came away with buprenorphine that I am going to give her very 12 hours. Looking forward to trying to get that into her mouth later! She has been fairly woozy from the shot, but that had meant she hasnt been to the litter box as much today. I can still see some light blood when she does go.
They also gave me some gabapentin if we need it once we finish the metacam. I was advised just to give her half a tablet to start off with.
I am going to use the litter box crystals on Tuesday morning and pop a sample down to the surgery. She was totally empty this morning, but her bladder is still soft which means she doesnt have any blockages.
They also gave me some gabapentin if we need it once we finish the metacam. I was advised just to give her half a tablet to start off with.
I am going to use the litter box crystals on Tuesday morning and pop a sample down to the surgery. She was totally empty this morning, but her bladder is still soft which means she doesnt have any blockages.
Re: Metacam - First time user
A quick update....
Giving the bup via the syringe into her mouth was a no go. I tried 3 times, but she got stressed and then I had a little cry. I decided that our bond and not causing more stress was more important. I was still able to give her the last dose of metcam and after 12hrs of her going on a hunger strike and ignoring me today she just ate a plat of tuna with half a gabapentin tablet in it. The vet had given me those to try after the bup, but I decided to move straight to those.
In terms if her toilet habits I got back this afternoon and she is going to the trays less and its not her first thought upon waking. I am hoping this means we have some progress and she is feeling brighter.
Giving the bup via the syringe into her mouth was a no go. I tried 3 times, but she got stressed and then I had a little cry. I decided that our bond and not causing more stress was more important. I was still able to give her the last dose of metcam and after 12hrs of her going on a hunger strike and ignoring me today she just ate a plat of tuna with half a gabapentin tablet in it. The vet had given me those to try after the bup, but I decided to move straight to those.
In terms if her toilet habits I got back this afternoon and she is going to the trays less and its not her first thought upon waking. I am hoping this means we have some progress and she is feeling brighter.
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Certainly sounds positive.
Just a thought about the stress aspect, have you been feeling stressed out by all this, could that be what she is picking up on?
Just a thought about the stress aspect, have you been feeling stressed out by all this, could that be what she is picking up on?
Re: Metacam - First time user
To be honest I have been stressed recently as I suddenly found out I am losing my job at the start of October. I have been very aware of trying not to let Ivy see me upset, but we live in a small home, so she may have picked up on it.
She seems much brighter today and we had a couple of little play sessions. On reflection she hadnt been wanting to play as much, but I had just put that down to the heat, but it could have been her not feeling to good. I am going to go back to our scheduled plays tomorrow as she seems to have more energy and it is much cooler.
She seems much brighter today and we had a couple of little play sessions. On reflection she hadnt been wanting to play as much, but I had just put that down to the heat, but it could have been her not feeling to good. I am going to go back to our scheduled plays tomorrow as she seems to have more energy and it is much cooler.
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Ah. Sorry for your job, I hope you get something soon.
Never underestimate how much your cat can pick up from you, or how much it can affect them. We are their world, especially if it's just the two of us, and they rely on us for everything. I know I'm not the only one here who has been quite shocked to discover just how ill a cat (or dog) can become simply from our human stress.
Never underestimate how much your cat can pick up from you, or how much it can affect them. We are their world, especially if it's just the two of us, and they rely on us for everything. I know I'm not the only one here who has been quite shocked to discover just how ill a cat (or dog) can become simply from our human stress.
Re: Metacam - First time user
Thank you. I am currently interviewing with 3 companies, but that itself brings some extra stress.
She is back to being very suspicious of her food today, which is fair as I have snuck the cystease into it, but her toilet habits are all back to normal. Lets hope that continues
She is back to being very suspicious of her food today, which is fair as I have snuck the cystease into it, but her toilet habits are all back to normal. Lets hope that continues
Re: Metacam - First time user
After 3 good weeks Ivy clearly didn’t like the queen getting all the attention and last night she started straining in her tray again. My vets are great and got her in this morning. Still a soft bladder which is good, so we are back on the metacam and I am back to trying to get a urine sample to take in on Tuesday.
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Did they give you the special crystals to collect a sample? Or are you chasing after her with a little pot?
Re: Metacam - First time user
Yes they gave me the crystals. We tried them last time and Ivy decided to poop on them instead. She is very suspicious of them. Fingers crossed we will have better luck this time 
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
I always think there just isn't enough in their silly little bags. Molly likes about 8 litres of grit in her trays so that poxy little bag makes her hold on till she's fit to burst. Now I use another tray that sort of fits inside the regular one so the smell of normal litter is still there. She can still hang on for 24 hours though.
Change it as soon as Ivy poops, that should give you the maximum chance of getting a sample before she can spoil it!
Change it as soon as Ivy poops, that should give you the maximum chance of getting a sample before she can spoil it!
Last edited by Mollycat on Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fjm
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Re: Metacam - First time user
I shared them between two trays in the hope one at least might stay poo free.
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Just had a little dig around - you can buy the Katkor crystals if anyone feels like me that we might have more luck with more in the tray.
Next question, does anyone know if these can be rinsed and re-used?
Next question, does anyone know if these can be rinsed and re-used?
Re: Metacam - First time user
I have two bags this time and plan on using her smaller tray, whilst removing the bigger one upstairs.
This evening I have a very spaced out overly affectionate cat, which I am guessing is the bup injection that she had. I remember last time she seemed to stay spaced out longer than expected. However, she is going to the tray less already and has eaten a full dinner. Poor lamb. Luckily my vets is open for emergencies on Monday, so I can take her if she isn't any brighter.
I've also just ordered her a new cat tree that goes up to the ceiling as she doesn't have many high spots in this house. We have limited space, but this seems like a good option for some new variety for her. I have also secured a new job this week, so hopefully my reduced stress will help her too.
This evening I have a very spaced out overly affectionate cat, which I am guessing is the bup injection that she had. I remember last time she seemed to stay spaced out longer than expected. However, she is going to the tray less already and has eaten a full dinner. Poor lamb. Luckily my vets is open for emergencies on Monday, so I can take her if she isn't any brighter.
I've also just ordered her a new cat tree that goes up to the ceiling as she doesn't have many high spots in this house. We have limited space, but this seems like a good option for some new variety for her. I have also secured a new job this week, so hopefully my reduced stress will help her too.
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fjm
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Re-use, from the VioVet website:
"Why is this single use?
If non absorbent why can't this be washed and disinfected and then re-used if necessary?
Dr. Nick Garside BVetMed MRCVS
VioVet Staff
This product is sterile when within it's packaging and unopened. This means it has no bacteria/infectious material present.
Once opened it will be contaminated with bacteria from the environment and so cannot be used to get an accurate urine sample. Even cleaning with disinfectants won't guarantee the product stays sterile and suitable for repeat use. If you wish to re-use the product then I advise discussing with your vet as they may be able to sterilise it for you, however this is not likely to be cost effective."
As the pellets I get from my vet have already been decanted into a polythene bag, and since even if they came in a sealed pouch and were sterile when first opened they then hit a non sterile tray, sit around for hours, are trampled and kicked by non sterile cat paws, etc, etc I am not sure that the argument holds water (pun). As far as I am aware the only way to get a "sterile" sample is by cystocentesis - all other samples are potentially contaminated with environmental bacteria, and are intended for other tests.
Which is a long winded way of saying that the crystals could probably be reused but would need very careful and thorough cleaning to ensure no traces of previous use remained. Which, for a few quid, is probably not worth it unless you are using them several times a week!
"Why is this single use?
If non absorbent why can't this be washed and disinfected and then re-used if necessary?
Dr. Nick Garside BVetMed MRCVS
VioVet Staff
This product is sterile when within it's packaging and unopened. This means it has no bacteria/infectious material present.
Once opened it will be contaminated with bacteria from the environment and so cannot be used to get an accurate urine sample. Even cleaning with disinfectants won't guarantee the product stays sterile and suitable for repeat use. If you wish to re-use the product then I advise discussing with your vet as they may be able to sterilise it for you, however this is not likely to be cost effective."
As the pellets I get from my vet have already been decanted into a polythene bag, and since even if they came in a sealed pouch and were sterile when first opened they then hit a non sterile tray, sit around for hours, are trampled and kicked by non sterile cat paws, etc, etc I am not sure that the argument holds water (pun). As far as I am aware the only way to get a "sterile" sample is by cystocentesis - all other samples are potentially contaminated with environmental bacteria, and are intended for other tests.
Which is a long winded way of saying that the crystals could probably be reused but would need very careful and thorough cleaning to ensure no traces of previous use remained. Which, for a few quid, is probably not worth it unless you are using them several times a week!
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
I did wonder about being sterile and I suppose that will depend on what we're looking for - it certainly won't affect the protein my vet is looking for, I can't imagine it would affect crystals, but looking for bacteria could be an issue.
Anyway I have ordered 6 bags for a couple of quid each so even if I were to single-use all 6 in one go and she didn't hold on for 24 hours in my book that's worth it.
I also read on my web travels about a special kind of hygrophobic sand for samples, so the Katkor isn't the only option out there. Maybe we all need to raise these questions with our own vets as we need to.
Sorry Laujo to go off on a tangent. If you have unused ceiling space you could also look into high up shelves, even a circuit all the way around the top of your walls high up - some people have done amazing things to catify their indoor spaces!
Anyway I have ordered 6 bags for a couple of quid each so even if I were to single-use all 6 in one go and she didn't hold on for 24 hours in my book that's worth it.
I also read on my web travels about a special kind of hygrophobic sand for samples, so the Katkor isn't the only option out there. Maybe we all need to raise these questions with our own vets as we need to.
Sorry Laujo to go off on a tangent. If you have unused ceiling space you could also look into high up shelves, even a circuit all the way around the top of your walls high up - some people have done amazing things to catify their indoor spaces!
Re: Metacam - First time user
All tangents welcome. You are all so helpful
I am in a rented property, so limited as to what I can drill into the walls, but the tree I have ordered kinda suctions itself to the ceiling. So we shall see if she takes to it! I do have a garden, but annoyingly I live on a very busy, fast road plus next door have two giant ginger Tom's and a family of foxes. On the other side I have a lady who runs a dog grooming business from her garden, so I am just not sure if its right for my anxious girl. I would like to try and keep her happy indoors before risking her going out. She has been with me for 18 months now and had seemed very content until the last month. Fingers crossed she will perk up soon.
I also read that food containing tuna can aggravate their bladders. She has been on scrumbles tuna wet food for about a year now and its done wonders for her poops, but I might switch her to the chicken version.
I am in a rented property, so limited as to what I can drill into the walls, but the tree I have ordered kinda suctions itself to the ceiling. So we shall see if she takes to it! I do have a garden, but annoyingly I live on a very busy, fast road plus next door have two giant ginger Tom's and a family of foxes. On the other side I have a lady who runs a dog grooming business from her garden, so I am just not sure if its right for my anxious girl. I would like to try and keep her happy indoors before risking her going out. She has been with me for 18 months now and had seemed very content until the last month. Fingers crossed she will perk up soon.
I also read that food containing tuna can aggravate their bladders. She has been on scrumbles tuna wet food for about a year now and its done wonders for her poops, but I might switch her to the chicken version.
Re: Metacam - First time user
Sadly Ivy isn't seeming any better and her pee has a red tinge to it from the inflammation. I did however manage to finally get a urine sample this morning. The crystals were once again met with disdain, so I went with a bin bag placed over her regular litter and then gathered it up with a pipet. Its now with the vet and they are aiming to test it today for me.
Another upsetting turn is that last night she peed on the backdoor mat. I didnt realise until this morning when I came down and was met with the smell. And while we were 'enjoying' the urine sample saga she peed on the stair carpet and on the wooden floor under my desk. I think this was part hating the crystals and part being in pain and maybe associating her trays with that. I now have puppy pads down in those places, so if she needs to go again I can at least protect the floors. Poor lamb!!
Another upsetting turn is that last night she peed on the backdoor mat. I didnt realise until this morning when I came down and was met with the smell. And while we were 'enjoying' the urine sample saga she peed on the stair carpet and on the wooden floor under my desk. I think this was part hating the crystals and part being in pain and maybe associating her trays with that. I now have puppy pads down in those places, so if she needs to go again I can at least protect the floors. Poor lamb!!
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Poor little poppet!
I was reading up about something completely unrelated, namely mineral deficits, and stumbled on a single line about crystals. My mission now is going to be tracking it down again!
I was reading up about something completely unrelated, namely mineral deficits, and stumbled on a single line about crystals. My mission now is going to be tracking it down again!
Re: Metacam - First time user
The vet gave me a call this evening to find out how Ivy was doing. I explained that she was no better, very anxious and leaving me little puddles around the house. We are booked in for tomorrow morning, as the vet was expecting her to have turned a corner by now. I am intrigued to see what the much sort after urine has told us. There is definitely blood in there, but that could just be from inflammation. When she first had this a month ago there was no bacteria or crystals - in a way I think it might be slightly easier if there were as at least that offers a clear treatment path. She is still producing quite a lot which doesn't suggest any blockages.
Re: Metacam - First time user
So having peed more or less constantly since Friday night, today my little minx managed to cross her legs for 8hrs at the vets today. They kindly took her in today as I had a job interview and they looked after her all day to observe her. The sample I took down yesterday didn't show anything other than a little blood, but just to be safe we have started her on some anti-biotics and I am going to run that at the same time as 3 days worth of metacam. We are going to take another urine sample on the day she ends the anti-biotics just to check everything is ok.
As predicted as soon as she got home she got in her tray and did a huge wee.
As predicted as soon as she got home she got in her tray and did a huge wee.
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Mollycat
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Re: Metacam - First time user
Little monkey!
I found one detail in here https://nap.nationalacademies.org/resou ... _final.pdf - excess magnesium causing urinary tract stone formation in presence of high pH. Now, cat urine is meant to be quite acidic to prevent crystal formation and that's why drinking too much can be a bad thing, and also why a cat with failing kidneys can be more prone to crystals. The other obvious nutritional place to look is calcium, and guess what it's linked to magnesium.
Does Madam have clumping litter? If so - I'm a sad case I know - you can measure how much urine you should be getting out of her against what you're actually getting. I did this by looking up how much they should produce, measuring out that amount of water, pouring it into the tray in 3 places (she reliably delivers 2 to 3 pees every 24 hours) and looking at the size of the clumps. Now I can see very quickly if she is producing more or less over a few days.
On her blood tests - what minerals have you got in your report? Sometimes something at one end or other of the normal range, or two items in combination, can be a good pointer. Molly had low potassium and high sodium, both in reference range by themselves but taken together the ratio between them was out. It's not always as simple as plain numbers.
Are they just checking for blood and crystals in her urine, or going deeper?
I found one detail in here https://nap.nationalacademies.org/resou ... _final.pdf - excess magnesium causing urinary tract stone formation in presence of high pH. Now, cat urine is meant to be quite acidic to prevent crystal formation and that's why drinking too much can be a bad thing, and also why a cat with failing kidneys can be more prone to crystals. The other obvious nutritional place to look is calcium, and guess what it's linked to magnesium.
Does Madam have clumping litter? If so - I'm a sad case I know - you can measure how much urine you should be getting out of her against what you're actually getting. I did this by looking up how much they should produce, measuring out that amount of water, pouring it into the tray in 3 places (she reliably delivers 2 to 3 pees every 24 hours) and looking at the size of the clumps. Now I can see very quickly if she is producing more or less over a few days.
On her blood tests - what minerals have you got in your report? Sometimes something at one end or other of the normal range, or two items in combination, can be a good pointer. Molly had low potassium and high sodium, both in reference range by themselves but taken together the ratio between them was out. It's not always as simple as plain numbers.
Are they just checking for blood and crystals in her urine, or going deeper?